Week 12 - Theurgy
Thursday 2-3
- both Iamblichus and Plotinus were neoplatonists, but of the two Plotinus was the more abstract and intellectual (the epitome of neoplatonic thought) while Iamblichus is sometimes dismissed by philosophers even today as not being legitimate.
- concerned with question of why do bad things happen to good people - answer in general is that the gods cannot do bad things, it is our fault, or our misperception. we cannot see all of the gods' motivations.
- the universe is rational, but the reason is defined by the culture. rationality moves from "presumption to conclusion"; the presumption that the universe was ruled by multiple and powerful gods was where the neoplatonists started.
- how to contact the gods - porphyry says that thought is enough (as theurgy strips away all of the physical parts of a person, leaving only the intellect) while Iamblichus says that you need something more. what that something more is remains in doubt - drugs?
- were many people dissatisfied with the results of the rituals? assuming that they did not work all the time. however, with power of suggestion, preparation before ritual, or even self-hypnosis, ritual likely to have some effect.
- theurgy's target - to take advantage of the rich, with more money than sense?
- Mithras liturgy - vivid images (power of suggestion). performer goes up to the gods, earning freedom from fate, knowing the future, and, therefore, how to maneuver within it. concrete goals not attested to in Plotinus or Iamblichus.
-----------------------------------
Theurgy Discussion
Difference between Plotinus and Iamblichus:
-->Iamblichus is, still today, not considered legitimate by many
-->Plotinus is considered to be the ideal personification of Neo-Platonism
Bad things happening-->it's your fault, not the gods
l-->mortals are unable to perceive the true nature of the gods' activities
l-->not willing to admit that the universe is run w/o reason
l-->cling to rationality, so the gods must be rational
*Our limits are ensconced in our inability to see the gods that we know to
be there
l-->How is this reasonable?
How do you define the word "god?"-->simply a condensation of the unknown?
Iamblichus-->total separation of human nature and divine nature
l-->we need the gods reaching down to us
l-->the human intellect isn't enough to result in ascension
Plotinus-->focusing everything on the intellect is enough for ascension
*Luck explains the inexplicable of divine visions by using drugs as an excuse.
Ritual-->Does it prevent you from attaining true "oneness," or is it a
method of further purification?
Question of suicide-->why not rush off to death if that is the only method
of reaching the level of the gods?
Self-hypnosis-->the power of suggestion, breathing exercises (lack of oxygen?)
l-->the ways that the success of the rituals are explained
PGM IV 475-829
l-->drawn from at least two manuscripts (must have succeeded with someone)
What is the difference between Jesus and men like Iamblichus?
l-->who is the philosopher, and who is the holy man?-->it's all relative
l-->in that case, who's drawing the lines?
Claim of the Mithras Liturgy: you come in contact with "the One"
l-->brief freedom from your fate-->a moment of immortalization
(exactly what Iamblichus is trying to downplay)
------------------------------------
Thursday 3-4
Why theurgy seems more scientific:
-it involves the mind.
-there is an explanation, which also might give it greater respectability and weight
or is it more religious?!?
-contains self made claims, secret knowledg, revelations, wisdom
-it moves from the real to the abstract
-erotic (platonic philo says eros is part of move upwards)
-contains iunges- a feature of erotic spells, which helps bring a
theurgist up through the spheres
-gods are all knowing, being like them gives you the same knowledge
-apathanatismos-immortalization
-protection- write on a cloth and wrap it on your arm, kiss when in certain points of danger
-preparation- abstain from meat and bathing
-end of mithros liturgy-"add the usual" indicates that it was for a professioanal, probably a magical formula like moving pieces of a word around
-the m. liturgy was likely not from the mithros cult
-the writer probably knew about the cult, maybe was member
-knew about the sun/moon conjunction important in mithros
-NN matter-marks as magic rather than religion
-if you looked at someone ascending, would probably see someone breathing deeply
------------------------------
Does the more 'scientific' nature of theurgy make it more respectable?
Why is theurgy more 'scientific'?
*stresses the mind and thought as opposed to unexplained phenomenon
*explains how certain supernatural processes work - a
systemization of the 'magic' involved - no longer unexplainable
Does this make it more respectable and by whom?
*would seem natural that something that could be logically explained would have more weight to it and be taken seriously
*however, lots of people probably took this seriously already without the explanations
*the philosophical schools required these explanations and, once they were given, they would then be able to consider it within their realm of reasoning so it was most likely these individuals that would place more value on something that could be logically explained or at least logically argued
Theurgy still contains 'religious' tones though, as well as magical, in the stress on the value of secret knowledge, secret revelations and higher states of being.
Mithras Liturgy
*goal was systasis with Mithras Helios and revelation through this togetherness
-becoming like the god for that time = apathanatismos ~ immortalization
-knowing what he knows about the glory of creation and the workings of the universe allowing the ascendant to learn about the particular matter he came to ask about
*unexplained appearance of some passage referring to Zeus and Amara(?) at the end of the liturgy
Mithraism
*lots of buildings and temples left behind, but little text, making Mithraism still very much a mystery
*the Mithras Liturgy is not necessarily representative of the goings on within Mithraism
-cosmology is more platonic
-more magical overtones than religious ones
*wishing to learn about a specific NN matter indicative of this
-cosmology and theology don't quite match up here
-however, the author was familiar with Mithraism
*descriptions of Mithras are very similar
*similarities between Mithraism and the liturgy in other aspects
-----------------------------
Friday 3-4
Opening comments:
Specific descriptions of experiences in Mithras liturgy--no parallels in PGM, but is similar to examples of Chaldean oracles
Who?
The caster is passing the rite down, father to daughter. Other initiates may be included, but they cannot actively participate in the ceremony; ritual must be concealed from them.
Noises
* Similar to the 8th Book of Moses, but lacks explanations of the sounds created
* Vowel sounds can be like chants, or punctuations of silence
Naming of God
* Significant because reveals person knowledge of the workings of the universe
* Also knows the names of the Bear and the Sun--working way through celestial bureaucracy
Use of Phylactery
* For protection from hostile lesser gods, as well as from the supreme being itself. As the caster rises through the air, phylactery will ensure that the caster will be protected from attack, and that he will seem part of the normal order of things.
* "Mokrimo"-combination of interchangeable syllables
How?
* Breathe in the rays of the sun (pneuma). Passes up through the layers of heaven
* More an altered state of consciousness than actual levitation
--must make sure body will still be there were the caster returns
--Iamblicus maintains this is what gods are for--to help the mid separate form the body and spirit
Porphyry vs. Iamblichus
Prophyry-- * Believes oracular conversations are fraudulent because of the mundane forms the answers take
Iamblichus-- * Believes a distinctly separate being is contacted
* Souls is not always directly connected to the One, but it is the similarity which allows the soul and god to meet.
* In response to Porphyry, gods are divine, so we can't guess their intent; the the earthly and humble are not beneath their notice because they all have divine connections
Why?
* Immortality, which will give a divine perspective for a short period of time-- more of a revelation than eternal life
* 1st thing asked for: don't let the god leave! When god and human are united for a brief moment, it allows the caster to instantly memorize the oracle, and have an immortal understanding of the cosmos
Line Between Magic and Religion
Porphyry:
*Theurgy is magic; a fraud not religion
Iamblichus:
* True, many are crackpots, but people who practice the proper type of theurgy are having divine experiences
Where Does Mithras Fall?
* Porph--Hogwash
* Iamb--for profound things only, religion
End of the procedure:
God reveals ritual must be revised
------------------------------------------------------
Mithras litergy--experiences were very specific--you will see this, hear this
no parallels in PGM for specifity--a sequence of visions--very focused
only parallel--fragments of Chaldaean Oracles
who?--closely contained--father to daughter
you can take a sub-initiate, but they have to be purified in advance
how does the initiate experience it?--they see what you see, but they just
watch while you say the prayer under your breath--they're not qualified;
can't learn how to do it on their own.
the noises--parallel to 8th Book of Moses
what is the point of the noise--8th Book explained its noises--they had a
reason
what about Mithras?--were the noises orchastrated?--like chants?--what you
say isn't important but the way you say it is?--perhaps vowel sequences--the
vowels may be linked to musical notes--the sounds have some other
significance to them
popping/hissing is almost punctuation
the naming of the gods--names are significant--showing off knowledge of names
voces magicae
magic names
phylactery--protection
use the phylactery when you come into systasis with the god and when you rise
into the air and the gods are attacking you--silence prayer
these powers are potentially very hostile--this is a dangerous moment
how do you get there? (pnelma)--breathe in breath from the rays
levitation--conscious has shifted from physical to intellectual/spiritual
Iamblichus--you need connection with the gods to fully separate the spirit
and the body
the argument between Iamblichus and Porphyry--Porphyry: the profession seems
petty and open to freud because if these were really gods, they would give us
the answers to important things
Iamblichus: the gods are divine; we can't know their motives; defends the
practices that Porphyry is complaining about, but he makes a distinction
between "good" and "bad"
Mithras Litergy--what's the purpose?-immortality up to 3 times a year--to get
a revelation
1st thing asked of the god: asks him to stay, not abandon them
moment of contact/connection between god/man--revelation--if you are one with
the god, you would know everything for this moment, you have an immortal
understanding
magic/religion--religion--communication with a god would be more for
spiritual growth, not asking for things
where do you draw the lines and who is drawing them?
Porphyry is drawing a line--"this is not legitimate stuff"
Iamblichus is moving the line
Mithras has a twist at the end--"this is how you do the procedure," but at
the end, he says "don't do it this way, anymore, and do it at a different
time."