How to Not Lose Friends and Disagree with People

Why did you want to write this book? 
 

I decided to write the book because I’ve been hearing from people of all political stripes for years now the same question: How do you do it? We are in a complete crisis moment in this country in terms of polarization and inability to communicate across differences. I don’t see my job as changing minds, but opening them. I thought that my toolkit might help people to do better in their lives.  
 

I think that we’ve been sold this bill of goods that everyone fully lives in a silo or is happy to live in a silo, and that is very much not the case. This book, I think, compared to others by people in the liberal media ecosystem, is a lot kinder and gentler, and I think there is going to be some pushback on that when I go out on my press tour. Like, what if I don’t want to be friends with these people? But I believe fundamentally — and based on years of research and talking to people and being out in the world — that we don’t want to lose friends on a permanent basis. Life is longer than Donald Trump.  

But their language can be inflammatory and divisive. Why don’t they understand that doubling down and attacking isn’t a way to persuade people? 

I think they are very disconnected from the fact that they still need to do persuasion. I think they are riding high on 2024, thinking that they are invincible, and there's no way that we’re going to throw the rascals out, which I believe is what’s going to happen. I think a lot of that is rooted in years and years of grievance and feeling like American culture and society is dominated by liberals. 

I don’t think I realized how angry they were, and how isolated and pissed off, frankly, they were with the way conservatives have been treated in this country — that they are all about their guns and their Bibles, someone not worth engaging in those ideas. You see that in the fight showing up on college campuses, how many conservative speakers don’t just travel with security but get canceled.  

Yes, I think they are too far out over their skis and that is represented in their commentary, where you can point out consistent and systemic problems with how the Trump administration is behaving, like how 70 percent of the people ICE is picking up don’t have any criminal record, and they still double and triple down on that. You can see they are in a deep state of intellectual paralysis around how politics is done, and I think they are in for a rude awakening when and if Democrats come back to power. 

Have you felt the importance of the role you play as the dissenting voice in the room change as the media becomes more partisan and siloed? 

One of the most important things I can do is amplify voices that don’t necessarily have my platform, to make sure when I’m citing a survey or fact or piece of reporting, to give credit where it is due.  

The polarization, obviously, is enormous, which is why I feel it’s so crucial to take advantage of the moments where you can insert yourself into the other side’s silo. Because they can’t edit me out completely from the conversations.  

I think, generally speaking, it’s a pretty depressing landscape. This is a five-alarm fire for the future of journalism, and I’m very aware of that. I do think my podcast, Raging Moderates, and the rise of independent media and pro-democracy media are a big part of making sure that people are getting their news in a way that feels good to them, and that they can build a level of trust with them. Still, the majority of people who have the most successful podcasts, they’re not the reporters themselves, they’re not the ones that are going out to get the story, so making sure that you’re giving credit, I think, is the biggest antidote to the polarization and the consolidation of media. And, frankly, just speaking out about it. The CBS-Paramount merger, for instance — making sure that you say honestly and openly what happened at “60 Minutes” — is really incumbent on people who still do have big platforms. 

You’ve been directly targeted by President Trump in social media posts and even received death threats. What are your coping mechanisms, what keeps you going? 

I cry, and I talk openly about not only crying when getting attacked, but how important it is to bring that vulnerability to conversations around facing criticism. When you consider it carries a safety risk on top of it, how could you not be upset? 

I have spent a lot of time thinking about and researching how to process criticism and be able to bucket the type of criticism I'm getting, and how seriously to take it. I’m not someone who thinks that there’s no value in engaging in criticism, even from a bot army, because someone has programmed that bot army to be saying a very specific thing. I do read the comments. I try not to be hysterical about them, but I do take it to heart. 

"I think it’s important for people to focus on the fact that a criticism of style is a win on substance."

I think it’s important for people to focus on the fact that a criticism of style is a win on substance. That’s how I think about a lot of my criticism that I’ve gotten from the president or high-ranking folks in Republican circles, that when they criticize my voice or presentation, I know they are not able to engage with the substance of what I said, which is right because I researched it and I have the utmost confidence in my facts. 

We often hear alums talk about the confidence Bryn Mawr instilled in them and how it taught them to speak up — skills you utilize every day. What role did Bryn Mawr play in developing those skills? 

It took who I was when I walked in on day one and helped me cultivate that into someone who wants to take these enormous, big swings. Bryn Mawr alums have been taking big swings since the College was founded. I was at my 20^th reunion and went to the author talk and women of all generations are publishing and doing incredible work about everything from archaeological digs to books about handling online abuse. Bryn Mawr taught me an enormous amount of life lessons that I’ve been using since then about how to optimize myself, how to be part of a group and stand out, and how to look for the little things that actually mean a lot.  

I think, also, going to a women’s college is counterculture in the coolest way. It’s saying something very specific about you and how you want to spend your time. I felt that the world that I had when I was at school was the most fun I could imagine, that you were on this perpetual sleepover with a bunch of awesome women. 

You write about how each of your experiences gave you a specific set of skills and led to the next opportunity, and that is why you don’t believe in planning too far ahead. What advice would you give Bryn Mawr students today? 

Send as many cold emails as you can possibly muster. Coming out of graduate school, I emailed probably 80 to 100 C-suite people who worked in industries I thought might be interesting for me, or whom I admired. I admitted that I knew I was going out on a limb, and odds were, they were too busy to have a 15-minute conversation with me, but I got about a 50 percent response rate. I had some of my best conversations and got the best advice from doing that. 

My favorite chapter is about my wedding day. This links to not planning too far ahead and just going on the adventure but also bringing your whole self to your job. Your personal experiences can really carry you professionally, and now, more than ever, I think that employers are looking for soft skills, team skills — they are recognizing the value you bring to the table, and presenting as the totality of yourself is a really good thing. I hope that Mawrters or whoever is reading this interview will really lean into that. It doesn’t mean beating people over the head with your beliefs and making it hard for them to be who they are but to make sure you aren’t shrinking away from who you are in the process of trying to belong or have those difficult conversations.